An Interview with: Katy Hessel
VAULT spoke to Katy Hessel ahead of the publication of the paperback edition of The Story of Art Without Men, which has commanded international bestseller lists. The book offers an accessible and revolutionary perspective on art history, focusing exclusively on the contributions of women artists. Celebrated for its fresh and inclusive narrative, this edition continues to challenge the traditionally male-dominated art canon, spanning centuries and diverse cultures. Hessel highlights the overlooked works of artists like Artemisia Gentileschi, Hilma af Klint, and Faith Ringgold, among many others. With engaging prose and a commitment to justice, the book invites readers to reimagine art history through a feminist lens, making it an essential read for contemporary audiences.
Image credit: The Story of Art Without Men by Katy Hessel. Published by Penguin
Congratulations on the paperback version. It will almost become a textbook, right?
It's incredible! I don't know how much it is in Australia, but in England, it's 12.99, which is extraordinary for an art book that is fully illustrated with beautiful reproductions. It's so exciting because it can reach a new audience. I've been to many schools and talked to many teenagers, and I love the idea it can become their companion. It's the first time I've ever had a paperback book out. From what I understand, it does reach a new audience, and in a way, it can be much more accessible, which is the aim of the book anyway, is to get into the hands of as many young and however old people as to show them who these artists are. Really,
Tell me how you are feeling now about the book. As you travel around the world as you have been, I presume you're finding more and more artists. You probably feel like this book is a never-ending book!
And to be honest, when I look at it, it was written so long ago now, in a way. But when I look at it, I think about all the artists I've learned since, and actually, I've since written a tween version. And I've got a whole chapter on First Nations art in Australia in the children’s book because I had yet to be exposed to that art while writing the other version. But now I am writing this version, I can add those things. I mean, with the kid’s version, it was even more complex because I had to reduce it to even fewer artists, which is a painful thing in my life. When I look at this book, it was written at a particular time in my life, but hopefully, in the future, I will keep adding to it; that is the dream. And because I have learned so much about different artists and travelled to places; for example, I'd never been to Mexico before, I'd never been to India, I'd never been to Australia by the time of writing this book. There are so many artists who I think deserve a place in it, and I hope I can continue that. What's great about having Instagram and the podcast, etc., is that you can continue with that. You can still collect that data and put it out worldwide.
Image credit: Shahzia Sikander, Witness, 2023, painted aluminum, steel, fiberglass, glass tile, 548.6 x 396.2 x 396.2 cm. Courtesy Sean Kelly Gallery, New York
And tell me, how are you managing all of these things? You're writing a book, but you've also got the podcast. Is your mind constantly racing about how to capture it all? Because someone has to, right? You can't stop now!
I know! It's intense, but every single thing informs everything else. I love the podcast; for example, I'm speaking to Shahzia Sikander this week. I want to have those conversations with that artist to help myself work out what I'm thinking, too. So many ideas come out while you are having those conversations. And it's such an exciting thing to also speak to the source, to the artist, about their impetus, about why they created something.
That's what is exciting about what you're doing because your initial project was a historical reassessment. But now, what is so exciting is that you are capturing their voices and making a concerted effort to record their voices and their words. How important is that to you?
Yes, it's so important because I have a big responsibility. I have a platform where I can showcase different artists. Obviously, I want to do everything, but I can only do some things. And to be able to hear those artists in their own words is vital. I'm a vessel or conduit for these artists to give them a platform. It's also a funny one because I produce everything myself, obviously apart from the book, but the podcast and everything. It's also incredibly important that I am independent because I'm not beholden to anything or anyone, and I am available to speak to a specific person.
Image credit: The Story of Art by EH Gombrich. Published by Phaidon
That's a very good point; you're very much a free agent. You can interview the people you want to interview.
Totally. Which comes with its own difficulties and challenges. I only have one person working for me. But in a way, it's terrific because then it's about the work, and it's hopefully coming from my voice, not that I should be the author figure at all, but it's lovely to say what you think, I guess.
Were you amazed at the audiences that have come along? Is it surprising to you in a way? Are you surprised at how big it's been?
When I was going to Australia I thought, wow. It was amazing to see. What's great is that it's not a book about me, it's a book about a subject. So, you can never really be too caught up with it. And actually the book has its own life. And actually what's wonderful is that people care about this subject and they want to talk about the subject, they want to find out about it. And that's what I find so exciting this global conversation. So many people are participating in so many different ways on different scales, et cetera. A book is such an intimate art form, and it's not an art form that you see in a museum. It's one that you hold in your hand, and you can have by your desk every day or go bedside table. And it can be something that you can revisit time and time again. I've read some books many times and notice different things depending on what's going on in my life.
Do you feel that the conversation regarding women artists is changing? Do you feel you still have to explain why you're doing it? Or do you think there's an understanding now?
It's a really interesting one. Art is still considered an elite subject when I don't think it should be. Especially where I live in England, museums are free. Tomorrow, I'm going into an elementary school class of seven-year-olds to teach them all about art and art history. How do I get them on board and show them that it's for them and they can be part of this conversation? I think my next project is about children and education and getting them into it. But to answer your question, I can never assume that someone knows something. I'm thrilled to hold people's hands and tell them without judgment that this is why I'm doing it. Because if I say three statistics, then they immediately get on board, which is 1% of the National Gallery’s (of London) collection is by women. The story of art was essentially the story of art without women. And it took 254 years for the Royal Academy to have a solo exhibition by women artists in their main galleries. Let’s start with facts.
Image credit: Vanessa Bell, a World of Form and Colour, MK Gallery, Milton Keys, 19 October, 2024 - 23 February, 2025. Photo: Rob Harris
Fascinating. And what are you most excited about? What shows are you looking forward to in the next year? Or are you just battening down the hatches and writing your new book?
At the moment, I'm unfortunate because I honestly hardly get out. But just that's going to be me until Christmas. But that's all. I will go to New York for three days in November, purely to see shows. I'm also going to see the Elizabeth Catlett: A Black Revolutionary Artist and All That It Implies (brooklynmuseum.org)exhibition at the Brooklyn Museum. I'm going to see Gillian Wearing: Dancing in Peckham at MoMA PS1 (momaps1.org). I'm going to visit lots of artists. And actually, here in England, there's an exhibition about India that I'm really excited about: The Imaginary Institution of India: Art 1875-1998 at the Barbican Centre and also at MK Gallery in Milton Keynes (mkgallery.org) there's an exhibition about Vanessa Bell that's superb, Vanessa Bell, a World of Form and Colour. I'm a trustee of Charleston (charleston.org.uk ), and I love the Bloomsbury Group.
It's so exciting when I look at the programming that's happening in museums; I feel like so many people did so much work throughout the 20th century, especially in the women's liberation movement and beyond. And what's really exciting now is that all that work of all those people standing on everyone's shoulders and lifting everyone, it feels like it's finally entering the museum space, which actually is in order to really physically change the conversation. Because museums are people's first step of when they want to learn about art and so if they're showing that art, then that is changing. Super
Congratulations to you. I think the paperback is going to be hugely successful.
I hope to come back to Australia soon!
Listen to: https://nga.gov.au/audio-learning-tours/museums-without-men/
The National Gallery of Australia’s Museums without Men audio tour is a Know My Name initiative, celebrating the contribution of all women artists to Australia’s cultural life – see their art, hear their stories, and know their names.
Written and presented by Katy Hessel
Audio production and editing by Nada Smilijanic
