A New Era: Maud Page on Leadership, Legacy, and the Future of the Art Gallery of New South Wales
VAULT Editor in Chief Alison Kubler sat down with Maud Page, the first female Director of the Art Gallery of New South Wales, for a wide-ranging conversation about precedents and the future.
Image credit: Portrait of Maud Page. Photograph by Anna Kucera
It’s lovely to see you, Maud. Warmest, albeit belated, congratulations to you on your appointment as Director of the Art Gallery of New South Wales. Honestly, it couldn’t happen to a nicer person and someone who deserves it more. It's just such a lovely thing.
As we know, Alison, many people deserve many things, but that doesn't mean they happen! It's truly fortunate, and why I say that is that timing is also a factor, Alison, and I know you'll be really aware of this regarding the work you do with women in leadership and artists. I think about Anne Flanagan (past Deputy Director) and Suhanya Raffel (past Deputy Director and now Museum Director of M+ Hong Kong), who held those positions; I've been keen to credit them because I believe if they were at the Art Gallery in 2025, it would have been different. However, Anne Flanagan probably didn't have the possibility to be promoted 15 years ago. It is very humbling. It's a combination of good timing and being aware of that is important.
That's really a very profound and generous thing to address. I certainly came up through the ranks looking at women like yourself, Anne, Suhanya, and Rhana Devenport, formerly Director of the Art Gallery of South Australia, so many extraordinary women, all of whom influenced my wanting to be in the art world. Why is this such an important appointment in terms of the history of the Art Gallery of New South Wales?
Firstly, we should not overemphasise it. When Louise Herron, CEO of the Sydney Opera House, was appointed, with a female chair, she was very cognisant of not overselling it, because women in leadership need to become the norm. But, of course, it is true that I'm the first female director in 154 years. There's no doubt about that. And as we were saying at the beginning of this conversation, would that have been possible five years ago, let alone 15 years ago? Probably not. It is a really significant appointment for that reason. But also, that a deputy becomes a director is very significant; they talk about the curse of the deputy!
Yes, that's right.
There's some truth to that as well. It's often the deputy who handles a lot of the day-to-day tasks or the planning, or even, in my case, having headed curatorial for eight years, where much of the creative energy flowed through me and the team I work with. Because let's not forget, I always say this, and you might question me on it, Alison, but we have the best curatorial team in the country!
That's probably very accurate!
We're a strong, cohesive team that thinks similarly, yet differently enough to challenge one another. There is a genuine desire to ensure that First Nations art, culture, perspectives, and knowledge are truly appreciated and recognised for their magnificence. We've achieved significant work in every Australian major institution. How can we leverage this as a genuine strength for our country, both nationally and internationally? I believe people want to hear what we can accomplish. I mean, let's face it, every generation has thought it was the end of the world, but…
I know it does feel that way now, doesn't it?
I don't want to fall into that negative thought-trap, but, perhaps that sparks an urgency that people like us, who are culturally inclined, really thrive on, which is beneficial. With the advent of Trump, what's happening in the Middle East, and many other issues pointing to potential disasters for humans and the planet, I believe the only way to make a difference is to genuinely listen to First Nations’ knowledge, perspectives, and people. We can explore that through art. You and I know that. I think that is the key. In New South Wales, we have the largest population of Indigenous people and the most diverse communities. Therefore, at the Art Gallery of New South Wales, we need to seize this opportunity and maximise how we communicate locally, nationally, and internationally.
I guess the bigger question is, how do you do that? What are your ambitions for the immediate future in this new role? How do you plan to approach this in the most practical and urgent manner? You might not have the answer at this point, but I suspect you've been thinking about it for a long time, so you're ready to go!
I have Alison, and I love that you bring in the urgency part because that's what has come up the most for me in getting the job. I've been thinking about it for a long time, obviously, and you have too. It's that thing of, well, how do you make a difference? How do you bring your uniqueness to absolute fruition and flowering and then soar with it? I've felt that, but it's the urgency part that I haven't had as much, and now that I'm a director, I do have that urgency. How do we signal quickly, and how do we incorporate, as you say, the practicalities of doing it rather than just talking about it?
And look, there are a couple of ways I can do that. We have a strong foundation to execute this effectively for the Art Gallery of New South Wales. The first step is to examine the community in a broader sense; we have always looked at community, but we need to embrace its diversity to ensure that everyone can cross our thresholds. Until recently, the entrance to Naala Nura was a narrow passage with sandstone steps that resembled a courthouse or an establishment where not everyone felt comfortable entering. Now, in contrast, with Naala Badu, we have an all-glass, open design that is inviting. You can see every single floor, no matter where you stand. However, we still need to make that threshold truly welcoming. For me, that is the priority. The Nepali community in New South Wales is substantial and continues to grow. For example, there was a 12-piece group of Nepali musicians, Kuma Sagar & The Khwopa, scheduled to perform at the Enmore Theatre. Our music and community curator, Jonathan Wilson, who is extraordinary, took the initiative to to bring them to the Art Gallery, and when they discovered their country’s representation in the collection and on the walls of Naala Badu, they expressed their amazement. They said, 'Oh, this is incredible! We want to sing and celebrate our presence here'. They brought in their instruments and and we captured an amazing video of them playing in front of the paintings. That music video is now trending across the Nepali Australian diaspora and also in Nepal.
For me, that embodies the essence of what I seek—an atmosphere of, 'Oh my God, we're here!' where people feel comfortable enough to contribute their music. Their music plays at the entrance of Naala Badu. They later performed at the Enmore Theatre in front of a packed audience. It was beautiful. These narratives are incredibly significant.
By focusing on community, we can also engage families, which is essential. In January, we hosted the Hive Festival for children, which attracted 27,000 attendees over two days. As we know, Alison, it could have been chaotic, with kids painting watercolours on the lovely cement floor at the main entrance of Naala Badu. There were moments when I thought our curatorial team might find some of it overwhelming. However, the opposite occurred; everyone felt energised and enthusiastic, expressing a strong desire for this intergenerational interaction. You could feel the excitement radiating throughout the space, leaving a lasting impression. We aspire to create such moments more frequently, if not all the time. This focus on community and families is vital, emphasising creativity. A practical way to achieve this, Alison, is to incorporate these elements more artistically, ensuring we are always artist-led, as we cannot be any other institution. It must be uniquely us.
Then the second one for me would be, again, that First Nations piece. I think the two are linked together; the communities—we knowthe culturally and linguistically diverse communities really want to know more about First Nations. That's what we're getting through the hard data.
Image credit: Noŋgirrŋa Marawili, Lightning, 2017, enamel paint on aluminium composition board, 150 x 100 cm, Art Gallery of New South Wales, Sydney, purchased with funds provided by the Wendy Barron Bequest 2017 © Estate of Noŋgirrŋa Marawili, Buku-Larrŋgay Mulka Centre, Yirrkala
That's really interesting.
Isn't it interesting? I'm often told that we need to be driven by hard data. Well, let's be driven by hard data. Hard data indicates that local communities want to know more about First Nations, so let's use that. We already have over 15 experienced curators and programmers, including longtime contributors like Cara Pinchbeck, Head of First Nations, who has collaborated with Hettie Perkins and Jonathan Jones for many years, as well as fresh talent like Erin Vink, who is the curator for the new position of Global and Local First Nations.
How do we engage with First Nations people internationally? Erin’s role is the first of its kind in the country. Let’s consider these points and truly strengthen our efforts. I don't mean to say this to overshadow others, but I believe we could be the gateway to understanding First Nations art in Australia. We have got to come together on that and change the cultural landscape of Australia, and I think we can do it.
How do you bring together the beautiful historic Art Gallery of New South Wales building, Naala Nura, with the new building, Naala Badu? I know people often discuss the disjunction between these two buildings. How do you create a sense of unity so it feels like a collective institution, or is it more impactful to see them as separate entities?
Yes, it's a very good question! Should you separate them and give them distinct identities? They already have identities. What we are interested in is making sure that our collections sing across both buildings.. The work that we could do more of, which will need more time, is to bring the historical into the new gallery, because I think that where we've integrated the contemporary in the historical gallery, Naala Nura, it has worked really well. I love how that's been done. There's a light touch to that. Those juxtapositions are really beautiful and meaningful because they have emerged out of serious curatorial and collegial conversations. In Naala Badu; the historical has got to be more present, inflecting the contemporary, and vice versa. It’s something really worthwhile for us to do, given the calibre of our curatorial cohort.
We've also got an exquisite building in Naala Badu that is a work of art. I would love to see that exquisite artwork used more to present other artworks, . It’s really interesting to imagine juse that beautiful building differently. It's still used as we initially conceptualised it. That's a great opportunity, and the challenge for me and my existing team is to ensure that we do that. Ideas are already flying!
Image credit: Aerial view of the Art Gallery of New South Wales' Naala Badu building looking towards the Domain and the city at dusk, featuring Jonathan Jones' art commission bíal gwiyúŋo (the fire is not yet lighted) in the final stages of construction, 2024, photo © Iwan Baan
So exciting!
Really exciting and dynamic. The third pillar is the digital aspect.. It's about how we can harness digital tools to tell those art stories locally, nationally, and internationally. I think about Together in Art , our COVID project. It was the first time the gallery had appeared in The New York Times. We infused it with heart and emotion, and we truly gave it our all. We were not looking to reach the international sphere, but because it was so local and filled with heart, it really struck a chord. And that's where I want us to be. We told those stories in very different ways, providing small amounts of money to many people to pursue various projects as they wished. We showcased those efforts with very few constraints, but with a singular vision for the feeling we wanted..
I think that's the big thing about change. With these large museums and cultural institutions, there are no quick turnarounds. People often don't understand the considerable effort that goes into managing these massive collections of objects while also presenting exhibitions. Is there anything in the collection you're eager to pull out and display, some little secret items you're considering?
One of the things I'm particularly interested in and haven't yet had a chance to explore is artists who can be called “outliers,” specifically self-taught artists. We have a beautiful collection that we've been slowly growing, which isn't necessarily well-known. These foster intriguing conversations about how one perceives the world in a different way. How do you perceive your surroundings when you're less bound by rules, regulations, and presumably by history, as well as by the constraints of what you should or shouldn't do? It’s about moving beyond the “shoulds” and instead exploring feelings and emotions like memory. I find them to be truly fascinating. Take Joseph Yoakum, for instance—I don't know if you know that artist, but he is quite remarkable. Born in the late 1800s and passing away in 1972, he was a self-taught artist who travelled with circuses and journeyed through numerous countries. He was shown by the Whitney, for example. In the last decade of his life, leading up to his death, he created many drawings based on his memories, including those of New Zealand. Recently, we acquired one that was shown by the Whitney. Those are the poignant moments of lesser-known artists that I think are really interesting, as well as the attention on women's work. But for me, it's those more intimate moments that are more fragile and, I guess, less represented in both the big dealer galleries and shows. When I come across those, I find they really stay in my mind. And I think about Bindi Mwerre Anthurre Artists, an Aboriginal art centre in Alice Springs that provides a supported studio space for Indigenous artists with disabilities, so that would be my little jewel alongside the blockbuster shows.
Image credit: Djakaŋu Yunupiŋu, Nyalala gurmilili, 2024, natural pigments on bark, 263 x 154 cm, Art Gallery of New South Wales, Sydney, Roberts Family Acquisition Fund 2024 © Djakaŋu Yunupiŋu, Buku-Larrŋgay Mulka Centre, Yirrkala
What's coming up that you are excited for people to see?
I am excited about Yolŋu Power: The Art of Yirrkala. That's a show many years in the making that draws on decades of relationships for the art gallery, and being able to showcase that depth will be extraordinary. In the summer, we are looking to change our approach; we’re not just going to do one blockbuster; we are doing several shows. This includes 'Ron Mueck: Encounter' and 'Dangerously Modern: Australian Women Artists in Europe, 1890–1940', which is brilliant and is presented by us in collaboration with the Art Gallery of South Australia.
Image credit: Alison Rehfisch Oranges and lemons c1934, oil on canvas, 50 x 40 cm, Art Gallery of New South Wales, purchased 1976 © Estate of Alison Rehfisch, image © Art Gallery of New South Wales
I love that it’s a shared exhibition!
We want to ensure that this summer is filled with fun! Bringing in an artist like Mike Hewson, whose show “The Key’s Under the Mat” in The Tank, is an example of how we want to truly revolutionise our perceptions of space, families, and invite movement through the building. Your point about Naala Baduthis summer, highlights when you'll really see a shift in how that particular building will be used. So, I'm really looking forward to that. The curators are beyond excited about it and are thinking very much in a holistic way – how do you activate the entire museum with a particular focus?! This will be super interesting.
For more insight into the Art Gallery of New South Wales click HERE.
